Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

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terinin
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by terinin »

I have no rom hacking experience but this has confused me for a long time. I'm simply asking if it is easier to make a complete 2-player version of Final Fight on the SNES by hacking the second game and inserting the assets from the first game into it. Most of the enemy AI is similar and Maki and Carlos play the same as Guy and Cody. The only troublesome aspects being the bosses whose AI is probably a lot more complex in the first game (FF2 has some of the dumbest bosses). I understand that it's going to take effort but so is trying to fix the first game's flawed and inefficient engine. I believe the second game's faster and more stable engine would be easier to work with and the code would still be very similar. Final Fight 2 had a decompressor released for it a long time ago so that won't be a problem either.
I am acutely aware of my lack of knowledge and I may be entirely wrong but I've seen nary a thought on the subject so I hope whoever is reading this and is a hacker would consider my thoughts.
Thank You.

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Gnawtor
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Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by Gnawtor »

The code is not similar between the two games at all. They share the same alphabet tiles but they are otherwise two completely different programs with different kinds of data. You would have to reprogram every enemy and boss from the ground up along with redoing their animation data, every effect entity that controls things like the subway train, level triggers, background maps, the entities that control background map animations, the SPC700 ROM and all the subroutines that communicate with it, etc. It would be a profoundly absurd amount of work.

EDIT: Not to imply that adding 2 player mode to SNES Final Fight isn't an absurd amount of work either, but at least it's already Final Fight.

terinin
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by terinin »

I guess you're right. Thanks for the clarification. Where is Rotwang btw? His two-player Final Fight hack mentions this website but I can't find him or his hack on here.

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Gnawtor
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Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by Gnawtor »

I'm Rotwang. The hack was on here but it got accidentally deleted a while ago. Here it is again:
Attachments
final_fight_unlicensed_hack_version_PT06__use_with_final_fight_guy_japan.zip
(44.19 KiB) Downloaded 723 times

terinin
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Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by terinin »

Wow. Thanks for the link. Atleast this topic is somewhat useful now. Speaking of which, are you still working on the hack? It doesn't seem that different from the last version I downloaded.

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Gnawtor
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Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by Gnawtor »

It was last updated a couple years ago. I haven't given up on it, but I've been busy with arcade hacking. I do want to revisit the 2 player SNES hack one day, just not sure when.

terinin
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by terinin »

That's okay. The whole thing seems like a lot of work. And your arcade hacks seem really cool; so I get it.

If you don't mind, I made a character select screen that I posted on Twitter: The image is in the standard SNES resolution (256 x 224) which is why Twitter blurs the image. I don't think it'll be very useful but I did use the original art assets and properly resized the portraits to fit all three characters. Hopefully it'll give you some ideas.

https://twitter.com/xyclapse/status/1249901023633780736

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Gnawtor
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Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by Gnawtor »

I've thought about a couple ways of doing the character select screen without having to resize the portraits too drastically. The challenge is that Cody's portrait uses a few different palettes to get all the detail in his clothes, so his tiles have to line up a certain way.

terinin
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by terinin »

Yeah. I got that quirk when I was trying to redraw Cody; he was definitely the hardest to get right. But his portrait in itself looks rather jank in the first place with the misproportionate face. I just hope you're able to finish the hack since it isn't just about inserting a two-player mode: you're also going to end up fixing the performance issues while doing it. The game will be a lot more fun.
I read your article on the game and my guess is you still need rearrange the sprites to take up more ROM space and take up less space in VRAM and lower the object overhead. There's also the question of getting more than two enemies on screen with the two player characters. I was wondering if you could constantly update the VRAM on the SNES like with the MMC memory mappers on the NES to try and show more enemies. I'm almost talking nonsense at this point so I digress.
I don't want to take up any more of your time so I just want to say it's been an honour talking to you. I got a lot more insight into ROM hacking and programming because of your posts and I can't thank you enough for that.
P.S- someone made an article about your hack last year, I don't know if you've read it but it'll probably give you a confidence boost: https://retrofrontier.wordpress.com/201 ... -rom-hack/

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Gnawtor
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Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by Gnawtor »

Yeah, there's a lot of work to be done to make it playable before I can even think about reworking the sprite system. I was trying to prioritize working on things that were critical to the overall 2 player experience before worrying about cosmetic stuff. The top priorities right now are allowing enemies to target 2P (this will be tough), adding game-over conditions for 2P, and allowing the game to be continued through the status bar instead of cutting to the dynamite screen.

I'm a long ways away from determining if a fourth enemy could even be displayed. Final Fight 3 pulls it off at certain points but only if all four enemies are the same.

I did see that article, thanks.

You aren't taking up my time, it's good to have people actually post on here. Check out our discord if you want.

terinin
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:45 pm

Re: Can we convert Final Fight 2 to Final Fight 1?

Post by terinin »

Thanks and Good Luck on everything!
I'll check out the Discord soon.

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